I Have Walked with the Living God, Part 2

Dr. James Dobson: You're listening to Family Talk, the Radio Broadcasting Division of the James Dobson Family Institute. I am that James Dobson, and I'm so pleased that you've joined us today.
Roger Marsh: Well, welcome to Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh. You know, some people spend a lifetime building a resume. Others spend it pursuing a calling. But when you look back across the life of Pat Robertson, one theme runs through nearly everything he did. There's a conviction that his faith should shape the way he lived, served, and responded to the world around him. On today's Family Talk broadcast, we return once again to a classic conversation featuring Dr. James Dobson and his longtime friend Pat Robertson. Of course, both men have gone on to be with the Lord, but how fortunate we are to have this recording to review. In part one of this conversation, we heard of Pat's encounter with Jesus Christ and how it changed the direction of his life and eventually led him into Christian broadcasting. On today's Family Talk broadcast, the conversation turns to what came next. Pat Robertson will talk about the mission that drove his work, the surprising beginnings of Operation Blessing, and his decision to step into the political arena. He will also reflect on the difficult lessons that came with that experience, including learning to forgive those he believed treated him unfairly. But this conversation reaches beyond Pat Robertson's accomplishments. You'll hear Dr. Dobson and his good friend talk candidly about America, the role of Christians in the culture, the importance of prayer, and why Pat remained hopeful even when the future appeared uncertain. And through it all is the conviction that reflected the title of his autobiography. It's called I Have Walked with the Living God. Well, there's more ahead as these longtime friends continue this conversation and look back on a remarkable journey of faith and trusting in God. So here now is Pat Robertson along with our host Dr. James Dobson for today's edition of Family Talk.
Dr. James Dobson: Pat, are you an ordained minister? I know you got a master's degree in theology.
Pat Robertson: I was ordained in the Southern Baptist Church, and uh when I ran for president, I uh I gave up my ordination because I thought being in politics I I wouldn't do it. And then later on I had an ordination council uh that sort of reordained me. So the answer is yes, I'm ordained.
Dr. James Dobson: What has been your mission statement? What did you try to do? What did you want to accomplish? You weren't just building a a TV show and the other things that you were into. You had a purpose. I want to hear it.
Pat Robertson: Well, I I I was going to be the John the Baptist and prepare the way for the coming of the Lord. And I that's been the statement for CBN all the years that our goal is to prepare the nations of the world for the coming of Jesus Christ.
Dr. James Dobson: And the Lord has blessed you in that regard. What's different now than in the beginning? What's changed?
Pat Robertson: Well, what's stayed is the magnitude. You know, at this point of time at CBN, we've got maybe a thousand employees and we broadcast uh in 59 languages and we're out in about 100 countries. And according to the surveys, we see uh numbers of people accepting the Lord in excess of 100 million a year. And the the numbers are so staggering that I can hardly believe what's there, but it's true. We have all kinds of surveys to check on what it is. And on top of that I didn't have a university. God said to build a school for his glory. And we started with seven professors and 77 students in a rented building. And now we have about 11,000 students. And we we've got eight prestigious accreditations and we we teach cybersecurity and we we teach higher math and we teach computer science and we have all these things.
Dr. James Dobson: You have a law school there too, don't you?
Pat Robertson: We have a distinguished law school. Our our dean is the former chief judge of the North Carolina Supreme Court. On the faculty, we have uh three or four United States Circuit Court judges. Uh we have one of the Supreme Court judges is one of our adjunct faculty. And it it's quite a school. It's it's fun to see it.
Dr. James Dobson: You also have a benevolent ministry, don't you?
Pat Robertson: You know, I was reading the Bible of years and years ago in the morning. I'd have my morning devotions. And I I turned to the 58th chapter of the book of Isaiah. And I started reading and it says, is not this the fast that I have chosen, that you deal your bread to the hungry, where you see the naked you'd clothe him. If you see the homeless, you'd take him into the home. And he said if you do that, your light is going to shine swiftly. And the Lord will lead you continuously and and uh he will be your rear guard. And I I read that and I said, all right, Lord, if if that's what you're giving me, I want to do it. So I drove into the studio where I went on the air for a morning program. And I says, folks, we're going to start something. We're going to call it Operation Blessing. And uh here's what God says. And I wrote on the blackboard. I said, look, he said, what we supposed to do? We're supposed to feed the hungry. We're supposed to clothe the naked. We're supposed to reach out to the dispossessed. We're supposed to set the captives free. And if we do that, here's what God says. Our light's going to shine brightly and we'll be a restorer of the breach and we'll God will guide us continuously and so forth. And I said, this is what we're going to do. And I said, if there's anybody in this audience, you've got some canned goods you want to give to the poor, I mean you call us. And if some of you, for example, you got a car and you want to take a person who can't drive to the dentist or to the beauty shop or whatever you call and we'll put down you got a ride. That's how we started, Jim. We had a 3x5 card with little cards of people who given us stuff. And since that time uh we have seen maybe uh 300 million people in the world. We we help with food and clothes and shelter and and hospitals and all kinds of things like that. And uh we've given away maybe up to 4 billion dollars, something like that. But it all started. The Bible said, don't despise the day of small beginnings. And so it was it was a little 3x5 card based on Isaiah 58.
Dr. James Dobson: Well, the Lord has truly blessed the things that you've done. Uh let's let's talk about your run for the presidency. When you look back on that, you think about that experience, what kind of thoughts do you have?
Pat Robertson: Well, uh it's kind of like I wish I hadn't done it. When I was finished, it was I was so exhausted. It was like recovering from a very serious illness. What happened was I didn't gain the presidency, but I mobilized the Christian people uh to get involved in the political process.
Dr. James Dobson: You sure did that.
Pat Robertson: I I out of that came the Christian coalition, which was a very powerful lobbying group. We uh took over uh the control of the Republican Party in Texas. And I think we were responsible maybe for the for the election of young George Bush. But I I believe that out of that one experience I was able to show Christians that politics is not dirty and that it's something that we owe the Lord as as as good citizens. And uh I I believe it's had an impact.
Dr. James Dobson: Well, no there's no doubt about that. I was uh in one of your meetings early on when you said you had this strong impression that the Lord was leading you to do that. He didn't promise you you're going to win, but he did tell you to do it, didn't he?
Pat Robertson: That's exactly right. And you know, if he told me I was going to lose, I wouldn't have done it. So I was always hoping I'd win. And I I had a pretty good run, you know. I I I came out I think uh I won about five states and I was third. I was running against a sitting vice president, the majority leader of the United States Senate. And uh then of those two were ahead of me. And then I I I had guys like Donald Rumsfeld and Jack Kemp and uh the former uh you know, Pete DuPont and and Al Haig and there were some pretty tough guys and I I'm I came out ahead of all of them. So it was it was a pretty good run. And the people they were so wonderful. I I just love the people of America. I I've met some of the most marvelous people and they were so kind. But I tell you the the press was brutal. They were just so mean and nasty. You know, you you start going for the big prize and the establishment doesn't like you. They don't want you to come in because it's their province. And uh they guarded very very jealously.
Dr. James Dobson: Especially if it is somebody they have anointed. If they have their plan for who they want to be president and they make every effort to see that he gets elected and that sounds very familiar to what's going on right now. Uh Pat, you said that um that was a very difficult assignment for you. Gary Bauer also ran for presidency and he told me that that was the toughest thing he's ever done in his life. Do you feel that way?
Pat Robertson: Oh, without question. Uh really, I mean it's it's as I say, I was literally exhausted when I was over. And I had been hurt so badly. They They do such bad things. You know, Jim, I one of the things in my book I I I I was a Golden Gloves boxer, a heavyweight boxer when I was in high school. And uh I wanted to get the editor of the Washington Post into the ring so badly and punch him in the jaw. I mean I really wanted you know, a little carnal nature there coming out. Well, I I had to come to a point where I would forgive him and forgive all these guys because you you cannot hold a grudge and you know, the nice thing that God has done for me in these later years, I can't hold a grudge against anybody. I don't care what they do to me. It's all I have it's almost incapable of holding a grudge.
Dr. James Dobson: I've said we're on the edge of a cliff and I really believe that. What are your specific greatest concerns for our country today?
Pat Robertson: My concern is the future of this great country. You know, when you look at the world, there is no place in this entire world where people can go to seek freedom. You've got dictators in China. You've got dictators in North Korea. You've got a dictator in Turkey. You've got these crazy people in Iran. And there's no place, you know, there's such persecution of Christians. The United States is the only champion of liberty and freedom and you know, has been the sending ground of missionaries. If we go off the scene, the devil will own this world. And I think the United States is so important right now for everybody.
Dr. James Dobson: You know what? I told Shirley this the other day. It really feels to me like Satan is walking the streets. You know, I know that that happened at the start of World War II. You could just see the rise of Adolf Hitler and you can see the the changes that were being made inside Germany and elsewhere in the world. And I it just feels to me like you know, I I'm no prophet, but I can just see a conversation like Satan had with Job where he went out and said, I have been walking the world and you know, he obviously has his own plan and his own purposes. And it sure looks to me like he's working in our system today.
Pat Robertson: Well, there's no question he's doing it. That's the the game of the the communists and and the others who want to destroy America. You first downplay your leaders, then you take away all authority. And then there's a cry for a strong man to kind of settle things down. And the next thing, you know, we've gone from from freedom to to dictatorship. And if if America falls, there's nobody yet in the world. There is no place. I've traveled all over the world. There's nobody even close that's strong enough to resist a major overthrow of our society.
Dr. James Dobson: What other country do people try to break into like this? There's a reason why they come here. Pat, when you hear the term socialism, what jumps out at you?
Pat Robertson: Well, socialism what comes out is is a a nice form of uh of communism. And um I think what we're seeing down in Nicaragua, for example, is an example of what socialism is. They call it socialism, but it's it's it's destruction of of human value. And uh it's a prelude to dictatorship. They They use the term, but it it it means we we're going to run your lives and we're going to take away your property. We're going to take away your guns, take away your freedom. And then we will dominate you and we'll we'll control you. That's what it means to me, control.
Dr. James Dobson: I have a phrase that I probably borrowed from some others, but uh he who was seek power first creates chaos. And from the chaos comes tyranny.
Pat Robertson: That's exactly what's happening in our country. And they have got a a game plan now that is being played out. You take away the police. You take away the guns. You take away the freedoms of people. You begin to control them. You make them do this and make them do the other. And And once people begin to do that, they're at the mercy of the state. And the state takes over. And so that that we we we got to stand here for freedom. I I stand for freedom. I There's something inside of me that just cries out to be free. And I think I think that comes from the Lord.
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah, that's in the soul of man. That uh concern is shared. I am sure you're urging people to be in prayer. Christian folks really need to be on their knees. I really do believe that we've come to that point. I think it's just hanging in the balance right now. Do you see any evidence of a third great awakening?
Pat Robertson: Jim, I I'm seeing it all over the world. God is moving I mean there are people coming to the Lord by the millions. Uh you know, I've been in country after country after country and and all you have to do is just talk about the gospel. You don't have to give them a lecture in theology. Just talk about Jesus died for you. I've seen Hindus. I've seen Muslims. I've seen uh Africans. I 've seen Latin Americans. I've seen people all over the world. They respond to the message of Jesus. And I in my opinion we we're on the not on the brink of we're in the middle of one of the greatest moves of God in the history of mankind.
Dr. James Dobson: Is it taking place in this country?
Pat Robertson: Not like it ought to. No, that's what the problem is. Around the world it is. But you know, the media here is so uh biased and they give us such a a distorted view of reality. And it it's horrible that this media is doing everything they can to destroy the life that we we have enjoyed. I I don't know why it is. They they get their money from all this, but they somehow want to destroy our freedom.
Dr. James Dobson: You know, my father was an evangelist and I grew up with that mindset. And I grew up watching him pray hours uh upon hours for revival. And check me on this in terms of the history of such events. Does it not usually start with prayer and then with the young? How in the world that could happen with the millennials that we have here who have not uh you know, they've turned their back on everything or or they never knew it. Their parents never taught them about Jesus and about uh salvation. So that's got to come from somewhere, but it it ought to begin right there with the young.
Pat Robertson: Jim, you ought to see the students at Regent University. They have something on Thursday night. We call the Unchapel. And the chapel is packed with these kids on their own, on the floor, on their faces crying out to God, all around in the in the uh
Dr. James Dobson: Oh, that is so exciting to hear.
Pat Robertson: Oh man, I mean it it it puts me to shame their love of God. They They really are wonderful. I mean it it's God is moving among the young. It It's remarkable. I mean but I I'm seeing it. I I'm not I'm not despairing of this thanks generation. I I 'm seeing great things going on. So frankly, brother, I'm an optimist. The guys said I read the back of the book and I know we win, but I I mean we're on the victory side. God is is in control of this world and we need to just praise him for it.
Dr. James Dobson: Well, I'm uh an optimist too, but it's hard to be optimistic when you see all the things going on in our culture. It just takes my breath away. Uh you know, this that the things having nothing to do with the church, but defunding the police department. And you know, you got people dying in the streets in in Chicago and other places. People die every weekend by the dozens and sometimes hundreds. And that we're going to defund the police. Are we crazy? What in the world has gotten into us?
Pat Robertson: We we just have to speak out against it. And I think that uh America isn't going yet. So I'm I as I say, I'm I'm an optimist. I believe God is still on the throne.
Dr. James Dobson: I love this country, don't you?
Pat Robertson: I absolutely do.
Dr. James Dobson: You know, that you just look at what uh happened with our founding fathers and that really came out of the second great awakening. And they wrote into the Constitution not reference to the Bible, but many biblical concepts were in that uh statement of uh liberty and freedom and the Bill of Rights. And uh I just pray that we won't stupidly throw it all over.
Pat Robertson: Uh Jim, we're not going to do it. I think you know, again when it looks like things are lost, God Almighty is we just need to call out to him. He's going to listen to us. Uh he hasn't given up on America yet. But uh we can surrender it, but we I don't think he's going to let us. He loves the world. And uh if if this thing does go, you can figure the Lord's going to come back pretty soon because uh uh the the world will be in such chaos. But I don't think it's going to happen quite yet.
Dr. James Dobson: Yeah. Well, Pat, you've been so consistent and you've been so dedicated to the cause of Christ. And I appreciate you. I thank you for your dedication and for the many years of service and the effort that's gone into it. And uh I just pray that the Lord will continue to bless you. You're 90 years old and it sounds to me like you're just getting started.
Pat Robertson: Oh yeah, uh there's a there's a new birth. You know, my son just sent me a scripture. He said, there'll still be bearing fruit in old age. Thanks. Uh God bless you. But I I believe I I'm hoping that this this book I Walked with the Living God will will let people know that God is so powerful and they can trust him. So anyway, that's
Dr. James Dobson: Well, this book is one that people will enjoy. It's got talk about his ministry and his life and times and especially his brand new book I I Have Walked with the Living God. And Pat, you've been my friend for a long time and I'm going to see you forever in heaven. And I just appreciate you. God bless you.
Pat Robertson: Pat Robertson's life and ministry remind us that a life surrendered to God can have an impact far beyond what we may ever see. His story was filled with unexpected turns, but through it all he remained committed to sharing the gospel and to serving others. You've been listening to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk featuring the conclusion of Dr. Dobson's conversation with Pat Robertson. Now if you missed either part of this special broadcast, remember you can hear it again or share it with someone who needs to hear this message. And when you go to drjamesdobson.org, you'll find the audio link. We also know there are a lot of parents who listen to this program. And if you're a mom or dad of a young girl, we have a special free resource designed especially for those raising daughters. It's our Bringing Up Girls 10-Day Email Series. It's based on Dr. Dobson's teaching in that best-selling book Bringing Up Girls, discussing the tremendous responsibility as well as privilege of guiding a girl toward adulthood. Our daughters are growing up in a culture filled with competing messages about identity, relationships, character, and what really matters. This free email series will help you think intentionally about the values that you're passing on while encouraging qualities like truthfulness, self-discipline, generosity, modesty, morality, and a genuine love for God. Parenthood is an enormous responsibility and none of us approaches it with all the answers. But we can be intentional about preparing our daughters for the choices and challenges ahead while helping them develop the character they'll carry into adulthood. You can sign up for the free Bringing Up Girls 10-Day Email Series when you go to drjamesdobson.org and just search for that title Bringing Up Girls. You might want to also mention in the search bar that you're looking for the email series. Of course, the book Bringing Up Girls is also available as well. Find all that information and more when you go to drjamesdobson.org. And while you're online with us, you can discover even more about the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, including the Defending Faith, Family, and Freedom podcast with Gary Bauer, our senior vice president of public policy here at the Dobson Policy and Culture Center. Gary brings decades of experience in public policy and Christian advocacy to conversations about the issues affecting families, religious liberty, and our culture. Approaching those discussions from a biblical worldview, you can find the Defending Faith, Family, and Freedom podcast wherever you get your podcast. You can also find it at oneplace.com or by going to drjamesdobson.org. Also an announcement here about a special opportunity for you if you're a pastor, a church staff member, or a lay leader and how you can help bring the Chosen to your church absolutely free. Season 6 of The Chosen Season 6 Episode 1 will soon be streaming on Prime Video, but you can bring it to your congregation prior to that release date at no cost to your church. To learn how, go to drjamesdobson.org, look for the link for The Chosen and click onto it right there. That's drjamesdobson.org and look for the Chosen link. And finally, as we conclude today's program, I want to remind you that Family Talk and the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute are completely listener supported. Our mission is to preserve and promote the institution of the family and the biblical principles upon which they are based. If this ministry has encouraged you, we invite you to make a financial contribution today. Your generosity allows us to continue reaching people through radio and digital platforms and podcasts and written materials, practical resources designed to bring biblical truth into everyday life. Every donation regardless of size helps us continue in that mission. And if you prefer, you can mail your tax-deductible contribution to the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, PO Box 3900, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. You can also give a gift online through our secure website at drjamesdobson.org or if it's easier, just go to jdfoi.org. They are the same website, just slightly different ways of getting there. And if you prefer, you could speak with a member of our Constituent Care Team. That number is 877-732-6825. That's 877-732-6825. Well, I'm Roger Marsh. And on behalf of all of us here at Family Talk and the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, thanks so much for joining us today. Be sure to tune in again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.